Πριν κάτι μήνες ένας αγαπητός σε μένα "Ορθόδοξος", κατόπιν συζητήσεως μου έδωσε γραπτώς σε ένα χαρτί τις πιο κάτω ερωτήσεις (για τις οποίες με ενημέρωσε πολύ αργά ότι τις είχε αντιγράψει από αλλού) ώστε να τις απαντήσω. Είχα σκεφτεί να κάνω τις ερωτήσεις του ένα άρθρο ώστε να μπορούν και άλλοι που έχουν τις ίδιες "απορίες" να καλυφθούν, αλλά επίσης σκέφτηκα πριν αναρτήσω το άρθρο να σας γνωστοποιήσω τις ερωτήσεις του ώστε να τις σκεφτείτε και από μόνοι σας. Το άρθρο μου είναι σχεδόν έτοιμο, αλλά επειδή μία από τις ερωτήσεις του απαιτεί περεταίρω έρευνα ίσως χρειαστώ ακόμα 1-2 βδομάδες, ίσως παραπάνω, ίσως λιγότερο. Γεγονός όμως ΣΙΓΟΥΡΟ είναι ότι όλοι («Ορθόδοξοι», «Καθολικοί», Διαμαρτυρόμενοι[με και χωρίς εισαγωγικά…] ) θα έχουν να πάρουν από λίγα μέχρι πολλά από τις απαντήσεις που ετοίμασα.
Οι ερωτήσεις του λοιπόν ήταν:
1) Που Λέγει η Γραφή ότι είναι «καταστατικό πίστεως»;
2) Που λέγει (η Αγία Γραφή) ότι είναι «ο Λόγος Του Θεού»;
3) Που λέγει ποια είναι τα βιβλία της;
4) Με ποια αγιογραφική βάση απορρίπτετε 10 βιβλία της Αγίας Γραφής από την Π.Δ. και κρατάτε μόνο 66;
5) Που λέγει η Αγία Γραφή ότι η πίστη της Εκκλησίας κρίνεται με βάση την Αγία Γραφή και όχι το αντίθετο;
6) Που λέγει ότι πρέπει όσα τηρεί η Εκκλησία να βρίσκονται μέσα στην Αγία Γραφή;
7) Που βρήκατε ότι η Αγία Γραφή είναι ΤΟ ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΟ και όχι απλώς μία από τις πολλές εκφράσεις του;
8) Που λέγει η Αγία Γραφή ότι είναι αλάθητη, και γιατί έχει λάθη;
9) Από ποια εδάφια προκύπτει η έννοια της Θεοπνευστίας, όπως τη δέχεται ο Προτεσταντισμός;
10) Που λέγει η Αγία Γραφή, ότι το βιβλίο αυτό είναι «Η μόνη αλήθεια» ως βιβλίο;
Παρακαλώ, μέχρι να είναι έτοιμες οι απαντήσεις μου, σκεφτείτε αυτές τις ερωτήσεις και συζητήστε τες με αδερφούς, αλλά και με τους λειτουργούς των Εκκλησιών σας.
---Το κουμπί ακριβώς κάτω και αριστερά από αυτό εδώ το "κουτί" ανακοινώσεων το έχετε δοκιμάσει; Πατήστε τα βελάκια και δείτε τι θα γίνει.
---Ψαλ.5:8-11 Κύριε, οδήγησόν με εν τη δικαιοσύνη σου, ένεκα των εχθρών μου· κατεύθυνον την οδόν σου έμπροσθέν μου. 9 Διότι δεν είναι εν τω στόματι αυτών αλήθεια· η καρδία αυτών είναι πονηρία· τάφος ανεωγμένος ο λάρυγξ αυτών· διά της γλώσσης αυτών κολακεύουσι. 10 Καταδίκασον αυτούς, Θεέ· ας αποτύχωσι των διαβουλίων αυτών· έξωσον αυτούς διά το πλήθος των παραβάσεων αυτών, διότι απεστάτησαν εναντίον σου. 11 Ας ευφραίνωνται δε πάντες οι ελπίζοντες επί σέ· ας χαίρωσι διαπαντός, διότι συ περισκεπάζεις αυτούς· ας καυχώνται ομοίως επί σε οι αγαπώντες το όνομά σου.
The Atheist Experience 721# refuted and exposed.
With no respect to me as a participant on the particular youtube video “thread”(a post comment space under a video) as well as to my effort in dealing with their positions, with no respect for what the other side of the coin has to say, with no respect to their viewers who have a right to hear the other side and with no respect to sound reasoning, my comments were all at once cowardly removed from the “The atheist experience” youtube channel:
But life goes on, so here are my comments. You can figure out why they were removed and my account was blocked.
1) AE stands for Atheist Experience.
2) NT stands for New Testament.
3) Where I say “Continues:”, it means that on the thread I wrote a next message related to the first.
4) The spaces in between some words are removed in order that I fit my comment into the message box that allowed only 500 spaces. This cramping up is usual on youtube threads. I ask of those who are not familiar with posting on video threads, not to forget this 500 spaces restriction; it forces one to chose between which thought to include, leaving some out and this is a small problem.
5) MD stands for Matt Dillahunty.
6) Different viewers called on the show, one that happened to be a Christian, was hanged up on after about a 9 minute debate (if we can call it that).
7) The timing (e.g. 12:42) on my comments, is the time shown on the bottom side of the video, where one can go to and hear the words I am quoting and commenting on.
8) My English is not the best, but I believe it’s good enough to get the job done.
Now, I wrote to them saying (there comments in red here):
Bad AE use of logic as usual, by “indenialists”
(that’s my term for
12:42 “And that’s correct! It’s even written..”(not knowing who wrote the gospels.)
—-So WHAT?How does that affect the Jesus account orme believing in Him?? MD makes itseem like it’s a big deal, whenit’s not. Start thinking out of the box. Besides,a simple argument says, why should I trust what scholars say,when the ancient Church believed they were written by Matthew, Mark Luke and John.
13:49 “You’re claiming to be able to be demonstrating something that
Bible scholars say can’t be done”
—Which scholars? Many scholars can’t think straight from too much reading! Facts:
*In 130AD Papias refers to the gospel of Mark in his An Exposition of The Lord’s sayings.
*When they read that Justin Martyr said (around 150 AD): “For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them which are called gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined by them…” and referring to the gospels: “composed by the apostles and those that followed them” (1Apol. 66-67; Dial. with Trypho,10,100,103)what do they gather?? How could he write that without him knowing who wrote them and without having the foreknowledge that they too knew who he was referring to?? Continues:
The fact they
are not mentioned in this context just makes it seem an established fact who
the 4 writers were, no matter how much that hurts..
Afterwards Justin’s disciple Tatian, formed what is called the Diatessaron or Harmony of four (gospels) for the Greeks. Is that a coincidence too? (about 170AD)
Bottom line: the New Testament gospels were well-known
in church circles and believed to be authoritative. Scholars who have lost theircommon
sense,should notbe called scholars, &AE speakers should not just hand out
impressions to those unread or/&with weak capacityof logic.
See 2nd link in further down comment, or wait till then.
15:15 He shouldn’t have interrupted him at that
point&hung up on the guy.MD is at an advantage.He probably felt the guy was
on to somethingconsidering him“just enough to be dangerous”.
16:00“We have no goodreasons to say who these authors are”
16:00 “…But even if you set all that aside……you have no way of
verifying anything that’s written there as actually true.”
This person has lost the game long ago. Don’t be misled by him. Who said something has to be verified to others for it to be true?? This is what they don’t want you to realize. How can you prove a personal experience with the Jesus of the New Testament?? Continues:
Praying to Jesus&receiving specific things I prayed for, being healed while praying, being invisibly/unknowingly guided to contact people that were praying I contact them, etc. has to be verified by scholars or MD for it to be true?? ARE YOU KIDDING US??? I’m sorry, this is deranged logic.Yet, this is the kind of thinking atheism promotes to those who are young or and ignorant. Continues:
On the other hand, if many -of sound mind- Christians claim the same kind of experiences with Jesus, this –to any reasonable person- is strong evidence 2#, no matter how much they will attempt to shred it to pieces by claiming brainwashing or delusions etc. To us Christians, what they say will always be nonsense, non the less, we should aid them with the truth.
16:13 “the factthat it’s just Church history”
Did you hear that? We are to trust scholars and atheists,but not Ch.history.Is this biased orwhat?All AE eps. are filled with bias&inaccuracies,something I point outall the time&will continue todoso.
16:24 “You are believing without evidence…”
1) How does he know that about the person or in general?
2) I have found atheism to be a trap of the mind, promoting ignorant deception. I have a question for him and all atheists: Give me an example of evidence for Jesus’s supernatural existence. I mean, what would it had to be like, for you to accept it as evidence? Continues:
If you can’t even conjure up evidence for it, this would show your lack of intelligence(since it’s easy), but if you can I will find weak spots in it, making the point that all evidence can be doubted, even the best; another secret most atheists apply, without knowing they are scamming themselves into wrong conclusions.
16:30 “…was that you don’t have a reason to disbelieve, that’s a
Aren’t you laughing with comments like this?? It’s a “logical fallacy”(lol)??? Having no reason to disbelieve can be because a) I have to much evidence for the contrary (to believe it), or because b) the evidence to disbelieve is considered shallow by my standards. Continues:
Even if someone who has no experience with Jesus, just calmly reading the NT he will get a feeling that these people were not lying about their experiences and beliefs; this alone(!) is enough –if nothing else- to make one leave the case open.
16:34 “Then you went on to say you believe it because you believe
the stories, congratulations, there are 1000 other stories you don’t believe,
which means you are not applying rigid, reliable standards to your beliefs”
1) “rigid, reliable standards” to prove what??That Jesus has made a great difference inmy life.People in my past,can confirm it, butso what??A difference canbe made by following any system of thought!Does that negate the difference I claim Jesus made in my life? NOOO!Continues:
2) The guy attempted to give a sound example of why he believes in Christ’s existence, that’s about when he was cut off. Although he was asking for it, Matt knew he was dealing with someone who was nervous yet capable of reasoning. Then he started with the “giving me a lecture…” bla, bla, bla.
16:50 “…you couldn’t find anything to disconfirm it, which is a
shifting of the burden of proof”
Again, he doesn’t know what he is talking about. The person on the phone, had his personal reasons for believing, but those had nothing to do with the gospels’ authors. Now if his reasons outweigh finds contrary to his reasons, or their absence of, why shouldn’t he continue to believe& how is that shifting the burden of proof. Ridiculous.
19:10 Atheist caller Dave speaks.1)Contrary to what he says, in Mark 7:9-13 Jesus does not condone kids killing their parents in the NT period. This was in the OT period. Jesus is saying, “You have such a strong case in the OT for the respect towards your parents (where a childis killed otherwise), yetyou withyour man-made commands, undermine that to the point that one only has to give a gift (Korban) to the temple and consider it respect to their parents(v.12)”2) Continues:
Now, in the OT, this killing was allowed, since the OT
rules were to illustrate how God felt about certain issues. Jesus of course knew that. These of
course, in the NT period, we are not to forget.
-This manner of reading (presented by the atheist caller), is sadly habitual among atheist.
20:13 On ring species (remove spaces) ht tp: // c r e a t i o n . c o m / b i r d s – of – a – fe a th e r – d o n – t – b r ee d – t o ge t h e r
26:16 “Religions have always preyed on people”
So atheists never prey on peoples’needs…Again, another misleading myth.-It is people in general that have always preyed on people who for various reasons were found weak. Religions, specifically? No! Christianity on the other hand, comes in contact with foreign students, but not in order to deceive them, as this guy Arjun implies.Their purposeis thesalvation of theirsoul. Too badhe hasn’t figure thatout.
28:58 “We’re really not hear to get anything from you, we’re just
here to help.”
Christians do not help, in order to “get anything”. If you consider offering e.g. food along with the opportunity of salvation, this, is not “getting anything”. If a homeless person denies the gospel, he will not be pushed away, but at most, even be prayed for! Continues:
Even so, the atheist innate “response”: We want
nothing from you., does fall short from the Christian “response”: We want to
give you more than food and clothing! We
want to help you avoid eternal hell!”
35:30 Most likely the story of the three frozen water fall streams, would be completely different in context if Collins said it. From the many AE I have seen, I would never trust MD perception of things.
36:00 (on the existence of God Collins) “is demonstrably foolish
by any account of how we go about deciding what is true.”
What an ignorant and blinded statement. He definitely doesn’t know how we go about it, but he’s so sure he does. My questions still stands: Why don’t you tell us how to go about it. Give me an example of the type of evidence for Jesus’s supernatural existence you would appreciate and accept as being evidence?
42:50 “…and everything has evolved to: eat everything else.”
There’s evolution for you. So will stronger people killing and eating the weaker ones be o.k.? Or are we not at that stage of evolution yet?
46:17 “and then you have some of The NT writings which range from
late first century up till several centuries later actually”
As I showed in the beginning, Justin Martyr confirms (about 150AD) at least the existence of the Gospels(also named the “memoirs of the apostles”) as writings**composed by the apostles&those that who followed them**.The Gospels though speak of Peter, James, Judas(writers of the epistles)as being apostles.Continues:
Since these are the writers of some of the epistles in the NT,they then existed in the 1stcent., like of course their writings did!Unless someone proves these were not the writers of the epistles,MD is still wrong. Although manydoubt the authorship of the book of Heb.,the early3rdcentury fathers in Alexandria believed it was Paul’s.Origen believed it was written by a student of Paul,othersbelieved it was Apollo or Barnabas.Clement quotedfrom it,therefore it existed at 96. Continues:
All mentions of the books of the NT, are related to
people living in the first century, but just to see what “scholars” (which MD
lightheartedly often calls upon) say, do research here (copy link&remove
then press the first blue link titled “The Chronological Order of the New Testament Books based on
the opinions of several hundred New Testament Scholars.”
47:35 “If the
Do realize Matt, you don’t give God the right to have a legitimate answer to your question, one that you might not like. This is a problem of your heart that God has seen. You are stubborn, and from my experience I can tell you He never gives in to stubborn people. Do what you want with it.
48:34 “But we don’t have to prove either way….The atheist position
doesn’t require a disproof of the claim that a God exists”
No kidding! It doesn’t “require it”,because it claims u can’t provesomething does not exist; a claim they cannot prove by the way, while the contrarycan be proved! Yes,contrary to brainwashing propaganda, U CAN prove something doesn’t exist! Note:“Prove” in the way u would prove anything, that is to a good degree; the same way, u could prove the existence of something.
48:57 “..unless you actually believe that this deistic God is there,
then I would say you are an atheist”
“Actually believe”? What about the person who has some doubts regarding the non existence of God?If you can wrongly claim he is an atheist, you can wrongly claim he is a theist just as well!The caller himself doesn’t believe he is an atheist, nor a theist, he just doesn’t know. You are making it seem, like there are only two type of people, those who believe&those who don’t&this is not true.
54:05 He says that religions promoting an after life, are actually fairytales&bad is done to culture. Can you believe this nonsense? How can he disregard so many people that have been comforted by their beliefs (irrelevant of how right or wrong they are!!) when their loved one died? Just because atheist are not comforted by such beliefs? He has in no way disproved the existence of an after life (there is proof of it!), so claiming people’s comforts are based on a lie, is still just his view.
54:40 then he says that if we didn’t have such ideas about the “after life” then there would be “the potential the people would treating each other better”.
This is one side of the coin,one that would apply to a smallminority of mankind. The majority would sin the best way they can, since their death would mean the death of everything in a sense.This smells like chaos in the making! Can you imagine society without everhaving come in contact with the idea of an after life&a divine final judgement?
55:40 (even in the case of a sudden death) “..we would be
better equipped for it, I think, then we would with the fairytales that
religions have offered.”
What?? Another unbelievable statement! How is believing someone does not exist anymore, a better equipping than believing he does exist somewhere (unless you believe he is in hell/some would be glad some are in hell!), or that you might get to see them again? Absurd.
56:44 “but emotionally they just stop, they shelve that, until we
get to heaven….They’re not dealing with it.”
What an frivolousprejudice lie! They just stop?? Really? Christians don’t mourn their loss? Christians don’twish theirloved ones were still around just because they believe some of them are in heaven? Christians repress their feelings&go on??Why would they do that??How does their belief in an after life, make them putaside their loved one? -This is just…well, u can guess by now..
The end. May God give His increase. Yes, some of you may got tired (but kept reading), but I’m tired also of the atheistic lies and inaccuracies. I mean, how many people this show deceives! How many kids take their nonsense to heart! It’s just sad. I have never seen an episode of AE that didn’t contain absurdities. NEVER. You can see some of them that I point out in other AE threads. Anyway, now it’s your turn to deal with the above. I’ll be here for you. –My 1st comment is on top. Read them downwards.
The Theatheistexperience youtube channel replied quoting me on one of my comments:
- “He has in no way disproved the existence of an after life
(there is proof of it!)”
No, there is no proof of it. It’s obvious that people can have daydreams, hallucinations, delusions and near-death experiences, and there are anecdotes of people who claim to have seen the afterlife, but those stories are obviously false. If people from different cultures and religions always saw the same heaven and hell, that would be interesting, but people always seem to see what they expect.
I then replied by :
Hi! You write: “but those stories are obviously false.”, prove that.
2) People from different cultures seeing different things (supports Christianity’s claims of Satan who deceives, but I’ll put that aside…), does not negate that one group from among them has real experiences. OBEs which millions have had (!) are proof the soul goes on.
Then I received another message from them, quoting my comment on 42:50 and sarcastically saying (in black):
"There’s evolution for you. So will stronger people killing and eating the weaker ones be o.k.?
are we not at that stage of evolution yet?"
You have evolved into a blocked account. Go write a Bible if you will, but do it on your own channel.
So, what was the problem? That my message was long? No, of course not; I even put my comments in a downward manner for convenience and quicker reading. If they claim it was a problem, then they should explain why it was a problem that my many comments were long? Does it prevent anyone else from writing? No. On the contrary, if they just let my comments be, others would have written in time, and my comments would –to their comfort- move down and no longer be on the first page. But even more importantly, does it maybe prevent anyone from refuting my comments if he could? No. So again, what then is the problem? The problem is, that their numerous fallacies came to the surface. Tough luck!
My advise to The Atheist Experience show is: Panic is a bad consultant.
On the other hand, the way I see it, my many comments simply refuting their many fallacies, was mandatory and actually is nothing compared to their nonsense in hundreds of 30 minute or 1 hour episodes (not sure of the duration of all their episodes), that has been polluting young and old for years!
It’s time we Christians started to take the reigns and bring truth back to the people.
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
The rest, I leave to you Christians and of course to you atheists.
May God, in His grace, speak His truth loudly,
Ps. From now on, more refutation of The Atheist Experience show episodes will be posted on this website. Their fallacies are outrageous and never ending; mark my words.
 Irony has a song playing in the beginning of the video that says: “Listen to reason”… Yeah right! On this show it should it say “Don’t listen to reason! Block it out!”.